Normally I wouldn't create a post about a controversial subject like politics.. but I am so out raged, disgusted and quite frankly scared of what has become of the world.. I just need to share some things with you all. You may or may not have heard about it, or the details still remain unclear because mainstream news outlets in America are doing their best to put a feel-good spin on it. But, on September 27th, 2006, The Military Comissions Act of 2006 was passed in the House of Congress. This Bill allows the administration to arrest and lock up any person it desires including US Citizens without due process. This means that if passed by the Senate, absolutely ANYONE is free game to arrest, throw in a military prison and torture if they so desire. The Bill goes out of it's way to gut the blatantly articulated provisions of the Geneva Convention. The President has no obligation to file charges or even provide evidence of guilt in any case.

Any person with a Non-Allegiance to Bush is considered an "enemy combatant" or a Terrorist under this Bill and are dealt with accordingly. For an individual to hold an allegiance or duty to the United States they need to be a citizen of the United States. Why would a foreign terrorist have any allegiance to the United States to breach in the first place?

Here is the Section in question.




When is the line going to be crossed? Is there even a line in today's society? I'm positive that had a Bill like this even been presented to Congress 20 years ago, a nationwide protest would have taken place. It's amazing to me that stripping this nation of it's civil liberties, freedoms, and human rights is now an effortless task. This Bill passed Congress without even the slightest whimper.

The Bill in it's entirety can be found at - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.6166:

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"Competition is natural to the ignorant; and cooperation is natural to the wise." - Manly Hall

for the record he didn't get my vote both times

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You realise we are talking about terrorists, not prankstars but terrorists. I'm not a fan of our administration but like it or not there's a world wide hornets nest of these losers and they want a piece of the United States. I don't agree with the bill that was passed, but the quote does say "knowingly and intentionally" aids an enemy of the United States. I don't think they'll lock up a sales clerk that sold a stick of RAM to a terrorist at a Best Buy.

However if you are in communication with them, purchase or help them into our country, clothe or feed them or assist them in locating, targetting and destroying their objectives... then you are an enemy of our nation and deserve to be punished. Like that idiot kid that when to Afghanistan and joined the terrorist organization, and fired at U.S. military. I have no sympathy or compassion for traitors. If a U.S. citizen is involved he/she derserves legal representation, foreigners should contact their embassy and beg for help, that's all.

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"Down with democracy... we need more dictatorships"! Galamoth
"Derms, celebrate your independance"! Babz

The President is not required to file charges or provide any proof of guilt of any one they detain under this bill. It means that innocent until proven guilty is no longer part of the picture. It means that Bush gets to call the shots on who exactly is an enemy of the nation, and no one else has a say.

No one deserves to be tortured. If you think for a second that all this means is the evil terrorists they detain get a little cold water thrown in their face, or a little loud music played for them, you are fooling yourself. We're talking about the same administration that is trying to pass a bill that ALLOWS the torture of all people the president deems an enemy. These people could be just as innocent as you or I and it would not matter as due process isn't required when the administration is involved. If the credentials for their detainees were so important, they would not need to throw out due process because any one they detained that fit the description of a terrorist would be clear cut.

I hate to ignore godwin's law here, but this Bill is almost uncanny to what Nazi Germany was founded upon. You do not question the administration, as the administration is above the law.

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"Competition is natural to the ignorant; and cooperation is natural to the wise." - Manly Hall

Are we reading the same bill.

Sec. 948d. Jurisdiction of military commissions

`(a) Jurisdiction- A military commission under this chapter shall have jurisdiction to try any offense made punishable by this chapter or the law of war when committed by an alien unlawful enemy combatant before, on, or after September 11, 2001.

`(b) Lawful Enemy Combatants- Military commissions under this chapter shall not have jurisdiction over lawful enemy combatants. Lawful enemy combatants who violate the law of war are subject to chapter 47 of this title. Courts-martial established under that chapter shall have jurisdiction to try a lawful enemy combatant for any offense made punishable under this chapter.

`(c) Determination of Unlawful Enemy Combatant Status Dispositive- A finding, whether before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense that a person is an unlawful enemy combatant is dispositive for purposes of jurisdiction for trial by military commission under this chapter.

`(d) Punishments- A military commission under this chapter may, under such limitations as the Secretary of Defense may prescribe, adjudge any punishment not forbidden by this chapter, including the penalty of death when authorized under this chapter or the law of war.

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I haven't seen anything that gives the President the authority to have anyone picked-up and thrown in jail using this bill as justification. This bill talks of tribunals, I believe this bill is written for the battlefield or possibly for raids conducted on foreign soil, not our nation.

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"Down with democracy... we need more dictatorships"! Galamoth
"Derms, celebrate your independance"! Babz

Really? Then where is the part where it says US Citizens are not to be detained under this bill? Even Citizens that have never left the country?
Check out http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/09/2 ... -becoming/

We all know that an innocent man tries to grant himself immunity from crimes he has never done in the first place!

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"Competition is natural to the ignorant; and cooperation is natural to the wise." - Manly Hall

Hmmm, after reading through the bill and looking at the last link you provided. I would be VERY concerned about my personal civil liberties and rights if "marshall law" was declared on U. S. soil!

The government is given free reign to do whatever they want to whomever they want for as long as they want.

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"Down with democracy... we need more dictatorships"! Galamoth
"Derms, celebrate your independance"! Babz

We're one "terrorist attack" away.

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"Competition is natural to the ignorant; and cooperation is natural to the wise." - Manly Hall

The last quote by you, Cynagen, leaves me with ambivalent feelings. True, it can or possibly would infringe upon our civil liberties as US citizens. But that last bit you mentioned, it sounds like this guy is saying that Al Qaeda doesn't really exist, or that it cannot hurt us. And that we are willingly allying ourselves with dictatorships with oppresive regimes.

Thanks for sharing Cyn. Good comments from both you and Dunna. Please contact your congressman/woman and provide feedback accordingly. Join or organize protests if you are compelled to do so.

Keep the comments light here and stick to the facts. Remember that interpertation of such legislation is inherrently difficult. Right or wrong, that is why we have courts and lawyers (yes, this is a entire different topic!).

Discussion here may continue provided it is not a debate platform, since this forum is not for debate of politics, religion, or other such topics.
Moose

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--> Born in 1972 and unable to PM or post without an editorial review, ! <--


No moose hunting without a license ! Licensing fees available by request .
Why hunt moose anyway? We're just big, slow, dumb, and make for easy kills...oops.

It's for another discussion I suppose. I will say that I wouldn't use the word "we".

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"Competition is natural to the ignorant; and cooperation is natural to the wise." - Manly Hall

I'm really not trying to spur debate here, I'm just genuinely scared for the future of this country for the first time. I never in my wildest dreams thought that the US would be a country to condone and use torture on anyone, let alone it's "enemies". Add on top of that the fact that they don't even need evidence of any crime commited by said enemy.

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View Tribes Ascend stats for CynageN.
"Competition is natural to the ignorant; and cooperation is natural to the wise." - Manly Hall

Depending on the outcome of the next presidential election, I have a feeling marshal law will be declared before the newly elected president is sworn in.

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SHAZBOT!

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"Down with democracy... we need more dictatorships"! Galamoth
"Derms, celebrate your independance"! Babz

Protection vs. Civil Liberty debate's are interesting. Cyn - your concern is justified, and I'm glad that we have a good base of skeptics to watch out for our personal liberties, but it is merely a fear; a "what if" scenario. Your concern is that this bill might somehow provide justification for the government to arrest citizens "without cause", to imprison them, and have their way with them. Well, "citizens" have families, friends, support groups, work associates, histories, and the always present media to keep the government in check. If the government were to suddenly go "Stalin" on us it would be a public event and the people would rise up; Ya see . . . the military is made of regular ole blokes just like you and I - good people who love freedom.

I don't believe the government is passing legislation to take away our Civil Liberties. I believe the government is passing legislation to "Protect" our Civil Liberties. First and foremost among those Liberties; The right to live. Terrorists are all over the place. They don't wear uniforms, they don't have a country of residence, they don't abide by our rules, they don't have a Geneva Convention, they do want to kill us, they do hate our freedom, they do despise religion that is not theirs, and there are some here in the United States.

I also believe that these terrorists are seeking a way to obtain and use chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons against us. I'd like to get this information out of them before they bring the weapons to my front door. I think the government has to have methods, ways, and means to accomplish this task. I'm glad there are guidelines to help us stay civil and to help us be better then our enemies. If you can think of a more peaceful way to extract information from enemies that are seeking to kill us I'm sure that the government would want to hear what you have to say.

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