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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:31 pm 
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Time for another email campaign.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:16 pm 
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The Sony files are now officially a security concern. A virus uses them:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9991596/

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:28 pm 
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they were a security concern before that was announced

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:45 pm 
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I'll never buy another music cd! :evil:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:00 pm 
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The same method is also being used by cheaters in World of Warcraft. Apparently it can bypass any scanning the game has built in.. and people are stealing gold and items from eachother again.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:09 pm 
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chihuahua
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what are sony disc so i know not to buy them? or all are sony disc?


sorry im so stupid lol

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:24 am 
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New Pup
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If a famous painter makes a painting, the original is worth thousands of dollars. if a print of that image is made, the print is worth only a couple dollars. a 2' x 3' poster of historic artists like van Goh, Monet, picasso, and Dali can be obtained for $10-$15. They are re-productions. They arn't worth much complaired to the original because they can be created over and over and over effortlessly. The major cost of These posters is the printing process. They are a niche market. Not everyone has to have several van goh's prints in their house, and probably doesnt even have a famous painting on their walls.

Today's music artists voices are worth money. The original (aka them performing in concert) is worth anywhere from $60 for crappy seats to a couple hundred for great seats. Their re-productions (the cd's) sell for $15-$20. Their cost of production per CD is probably around $0.25 . If the CD is any good, it is a wide spread market. Most people that hear it and like it will go out and get it. A lot of the musicians are tempory infatuations and 10 years later people wont remember them.

Do you see how skewed the price of cd's is? you are paying for a reproduction. An artist spends a few days writing a song, and then the music industry cashes in over and over and over based on the few days of work. I think it is rediculous. If an artist wants to make money, i say go on tour. Other than that, lower the price of music to a reasonable level
Not only that, but as I understand it, the artists don't usually make that much from CD sales. It's the record labels, who really do nothing but corrupt the music world by promoting low-quality, trendy trash, who benefit most from CD sales. The whole "you're hurting the artists" campaign is such a farse. Piracy only hurts those corporations who essentially pirate the music industry.

Music labels should become more of an automatic service. They should cut the crap (promotional bs) and let people spread the word about great artists. Their only job should be providing studio time for a fee, and CD production in a "whoever wants to pay gets service" sort of way. They've distorted music and held good artists down for too long. Greedy jerks... They're the real pirates.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:27 pm 
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Okay, I know I'm going to get a ton of criticism on this, but here it goes anyway.....

Prologue: Good music = music you like Bad music = music you don't

Given that we live in a free market economy, the record labels will price CD's at what the market will bear. Yes, they do make tons of money, but we are the people willing to give them tons of money. It's our dollar, we spend it as we chose, and for those who buy CD's, they happen to contribute to the fat cat fund of the recording labels. We're to blame for the excess, not the fat cats. If you don't want to contribute to them, stop buying CD's.

Now, as far as the their marketing and selling bad quality music, I'll reverse the logic. If Brittney Spears sells two million albums and your favorite artist only sells one hundred thousand, is it the fault of the recording label? Of course not, it's the fault of the band. They do not create music that is enjoyable by large numbers of people. If the music is good, it will get promoted, it will get airplay and it will be bought by millions of people. Unfortunately, taste is an individual attribute of each person. You can't make people like your music, just like they can't make you like their's. By the way, I'll bet we all have purchased on of those bad music CD's at least once in our lives!

Now for the suppression of good bands by the record labels....do you know how many CD's are printed each year and how many actually make money? I'm not sure myself, but I'm going to bet that only about 20% of the CD releases actually make money. Now that 20% has to cover the other 80% for the recording label to make money. So, the bad music is covering the costs of getting the good music out to the masses. Yes, there is still a profit for the fat cats, but it would be bigger, if it didn't have to cover the cost of good music.

Finally, how does piracy/file-sharing play into this equation? Well, since the recording companies are responsible to their shareholders (and not you or the bands), they must continue to make a profit, and, in fact, increase that profit each year. With piracy/file-sharing cutting the number of CD's sold by over thirty percent in the last five years, the profits are shrinking from new sales. How do they counter that? It's not by raising the CD prices, which seems the logical thing to do, it's by reducing the number of artists they represent and by reducing the amount they pay to those artists they retain. They rightly see that increasing the price would appear to be a money grab and cause more people to participate in piracy/file-sharing. Instead they reduce cost, which ultimately results in less new, good music and more promotion of the main-stream bad music.

Okay, I'm ready to be criticized!

By the way, don't get me started on oil prices, Moose already can tell you to avoid that.

Oh, and yes, I do have a degree in Business Administration!

And, yes, I do think Sony is criminal in this situation, but not for trying to limit copying. Just in the fact that they made millions of people susceptible to financial harm.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:14 pm 
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Stup, I agree across the board, except for a few points. The music industry, specifically the record labels they do suppress some good bands and even good music.

If a band refuses to sign a contract which usually gives the artist no control or ownership of their music or lyrics... they get no deal, they get blacklisted, and the radio stations (which to me are merely audio advertising for the record labels and the albums they are trying to push) they get no air play.

For this reason a lot of bands are getting smart, start an underground fan base, they release their music on the internet, sold and distributed via the net. There are some radio stations that are fair and don't bow down... they are very few in number.

For decades the industry creates boy and girl band clones of a couple hot pop groups just to cash in on trend. It's all about publishing, points, selling and regurgitating music and lyrics to new artists on their debut album which usually features no original music from a new artist.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:32 pm 
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chihuahua
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Ok, I totally agree on the bad music covering the cost of the good music not selling thing. So a commercial CD costs, what, 15$ now? I'm not sure because I pirate music (not like large amouts, I might have a total of 30 songs) but the cost of actually making and burning the tracks to a CD is something like between 50 cents to 1.50$ (yes I did read an article from a trusted magazine on this, please god dont make me go dig it out its wayyy back there lol) so they are probably turning much much more of a profit than you think. And, last time I checked, I believe the studies actually showed that piracy INCREASES the amount of CDs sold, because a lot of people pirate the music, like it, and go buy the CD.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:41 pm 
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Stup, you hit it right on the head. Until the record comapanies swallow some pride and "let down" their shareholds and executives, the problem will not change or go away. People are now empowered because they see how EASY and CHEAP it really is to burn a disc that plays music (notice I did not say it was cheap to record, edit, produce, etc). Why purchase a retail disc at 50x to 250x the same cost, when you can do it yourself? The dollar is the bottom line - either the recording companies will have to implement a massive price drop (at the cost of their fat salaries & shareholder dollars), or they will continue to lose business to other means of acquiring the music.

Stup and I will never agree on oil, and it is a MUCH different beast. Everyone could stop buying music without a true fallout. The same cannot be said about gas and oil, since it provides the public with too many required services - delivery of food, police, bus service, heating, fire department, etc. Geee, maybe that is why it should be a public utility like natural gas and electricity.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:55 pm 
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... I believe the studies actually showed that piracy INCREASES the amount of CDs sold, because a lot of people pirate the music, like it, and go buy the CD.
That's my point, my friends and my sons do the same thing, they download it, they like it, they buy the cd!. Now some friends will burn a few disc, one for work, for the car, and for home while the original sits in its case as a collection item.

By placing harmful software without the recipients knowledge... I hope Sony and any other company employing the same tactics go bankrupt. In fact I hope the hackers make a concerted effort to disrupt and dismantle their whole operation... I would!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:08 pm 
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Runt Dawg
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Stup, I agree across the board, except for a few points. The music industry, specifically the record labels they do suppress some good bands and even good music.

If a band refuses to sign a contract which usually gives the artist no control or ownership of their music or lyrics... they get no deal, they get blacklisted, and the radio stations (which to me are merely audio advertising for the record labels and the albums they are trying to push) they get no air play.

For this reason a lot of bands are getting smart, start an underground fan base, they release their music on the internet, sold and distributed via the net. There are some radio stations that are fair and don't bow down... they are very few in number.

For decades the industry creates boy and girl band clones of a couple hot pop groups just to cash in on trend. It's all about publishing, points, selling and regurgitating music and lyrics to new artists on their debut album which usually features no original music from a new artist.
I'd agree with you DUNNA, except that the situation has actually improved over the last fifty years for "good" music. In the fifties and sixties, a band had no way of promoting itself via recorded medium as they had no access to studios. They first had to be signed, then could record. Today, bands are able to get their recordings out dirt cheap because of micro-studios (I know of five near my home), CD burners, the internet and such. It's really made it easier for "good" music to be noticed! Look at the topic that was started in the forum about your favorite gaming songs. I made the comment that I didn't even know half the bands people were putting in there. However, I was able to find most of them at my music store! Wouldn't have happened in days of old.

The problem with "good" music not reaching the masses is that it is just not good enough to be marketed to the masses. Yes, I'll agree that I'm no Brittany, Christina, Justin or Shakira fan, but there are millions who are. They control the marketing, not me. The bands I listen too and would be called "good" music in my opinion (critical differentiator) don't appeal to most of the people I hang out with. They sell less than a couple hundred thousand albums because of this: not enough people like them!

What everyone seems to be asking for is the inverse of what you are complaining about: let's drop the boy band, girl band, pretty boy and pretty girl artists and only promote the "good" music. In this scenario, millions of people would be complaining because they can't get their music, while the thousands of us are as happy as clams. I don't think this business model would work for many companies, so why should we expect the record companies to follow it.

What it comes down to is money. "Good" music doesn't generate enough money to validate the music companies spending their hard earned dollars on it. "Bad" music generates millions and it gets the airplay and promotion. I look at it like this: Lots of people like beer. There are a lot of beer ads. Not a lot of people like tequilla and you don't see any ads. The liquor companies don't get harassed for this, but I think the Busch family has done all right for themselves. How come no one is upset about this?

Don't get me wrong, too few people are making too much money and too many are making too little, but putting inverted business models in place would have nobody making any money!

By the way, anybody got the latest Donny Osmond CD for me to pirate! :P


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:20 pm 
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Ok, I totally agree on the bad music covering the cost of the good music not selling thing. So a commercial CD costs, what, 15$ now? I'm not sure because I pirate music (not like large amouts, I might have a total of 30 songs) but the cost of actually making and burning the tracks to a CD is something like between 50 cents to 1.50$ (yes I did read an article from a trusted magazine on this, please god dont make me go dig it out its wayyy back there lol) so they are probably turning much much more of a profit than you think. And, last time I checked, I believe the studies actually showed that piracy INCREASES the amount of CDs sold, because a lot of people pirate the music, like it, and go buy the CD.
For those interested in the actual costs of producing a CD, here's the cost breakdown:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/entertai ... clude.html

I didn't bring up the retail mark-up in the original conversation because it clouded the issue that was being discussed. However, you'll notice that the profit to the recording label is almost a quarter what the artist receives and a twelfth what the record store receives.

One caveat, this is averaged data. Most new bands will receive less than that quoted (probably a third), while the Stones, U2, and other dinosaur groups have negotiated contracts that will easily double or triple that number.

As far as CD sales go, here's a quote from USA today about 2004 CD sales:

That is a 2.3% gain over the previous year; 2003 was the third consecutive year that CD sales had declined.

Note that CD sales were down 39% in 2003 from the numbers in 2000 (separate source -> CNN) , so the music industry took a huge shock from the piracy/file-sharing of the early 2000's. The only saving grace for the music industry has been the legal downloading of songs from pay sites. Yes, they were way to slow to adopt this format, but they are coming on-line with more availability and better access.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:51 pm 
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Where do executive salaries fit into that pie? "Profit to Label" or "Company Overhead"? My guess is in the second chunk...fat cats. Retail should be taking a hit too - that markup is rediculous for something I can burn at home on my computer.

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